X_X

of course you know I wuz kiddn'.....right?

I mix powders all the time and nuthin ever blows up.

Of course it the sweepins' off the floor under the press and it all goes in the rose garden. None of my roses have ever blown up...

I would consider but not sure black powder with .38 caliber is all that impressive..

Don't knock it till you have tried it.
Use 3F and fill the case till you compress the powder about 1/16" when you seat the bullet.
LG

Don't underestimate the smoke from a .38 Special and REAL 3F BP.
LG

I made the avatars larger for that? 8-|

Another mystery solved? Maybe this forum does have value!

The issue with the hot loads(above SASS's max)is 'splash-back' and target damage. With the now stupid close placement of SASS targets these dayz. 'Splash-back' is even a bigger concern.
The big reasons I stopped using Bullseye was the sensitivity to temperature change and the lot to lot variation I found.
This was back in my NRA 'Bullseye' match dayz when we load'd to the bottom of the chart for .38 Special and .45 acp.
LG

Yeah, I will have to chronograph her loads through both rifle and pistol. I have a Colt Lightening clone, A Berretta Gold Rush with a 24" barrel, that I have data for. By inference, she is below the 1400fps in her 20" Model 92 but probably right at the max of 1000fps in her pistols. As for Lumpy's experience with Bullseye, I agree, all of the faster powders exhibit sensitivity and velocity variation at the lower load densities. I experienced this phenomena in loading for 45acp with Unique. In trying to come up with a light load with 200 grain cast bullets, I witnessed all manner of velocity variation over the Chronograph, along with varying numbers of unburned powder flakes. Once I increased my load up to a more normal level for 45acp's that all went away and the standard deviation fell into a much smaller band.

Doc

I don't know if this is the right place to talk about powders for anything other than main match loads, but here I go! I am using Hodgdon's H4198 for all of my rifle caliber loading. It is just one of those powders that seems to fill the bill for everything cowboy. I load it in 30-30Winchester, 30-40Krag, 38-55, and 45-70Gov't, all with great success. It might not be the exact powder to wring the last 5% of performance from the 30-30 or the 30-40Krag, but it will work pretty danged good. In the 45-70Gov't, I have loads that range from under 1300fps with a cast 300 grain bullet from my 26" Browning 1886, to over 2200 fps with a 300 grain Barnes "X" bullet in my 18" Marlin Guide Gun. The same can be said of the 38-55 as well. I have 260 grain, moly coated Bear Creek bullets from 1000fps on up to Cast Performance gas checked 260's at over 1800fps, all on the one powder. If you are the kind of person who hates to have to manage the inventory of many different kinds of powder, this one is a great choice for cowboy rifle calibers!

Doc.

Interestingly, IMR3031 is the other powder that I used in side by side load development with the H4198. I tested it extensively in the 45-70 and tried it to some degree in the 30-30, but my results in the 45-70 testing put me off of it and onto the 4198 for good. In the 45-70, I experienced a good number, in the dozens, of unburned powder granules that would rain down into the action upon ejection of the spent cartridge. This was with the 300 grain bullets of either cast or the jacketed variety at loadings anywhere below 1500fps. I never had this problem with the H4198, even when velocities fell to 1100fps. On the other end of the spectrum, with 60 odd grains of powder and 300grain jacketed hollow cavities, recoil was noticeably sharper with the 3031 than with the 4198. With that crescent butt plate, the 1886 gets rather uncomfortable starting around 1600fps for me. By the time I reached 2100fps, I could really tell the difference, and appreciate it as well, between the two, very different recoil impulses. The 3031 gave up a very sharp, and muy painful, recoil impulse where the 4198 delivered what felt to me more like a strong, longer lasting push which, by the way, was still very un-fun. As those of you who are checking your burn rate charts right now have discovered, this flies in the face of the logic that, it should be the opposite, seeing as the 4198 is one notch faster than the 3031. By the way, I have driven a 300 grain JHC at 2380 using 4198, and published load data, with no ill effects, such as difficult extraction or burst primers. That recoil impulse is why I now own a Marlin Guide Gun for the hot stuff!

Doc

Yeah it did seem strange. I think that the unburned powder problem stemmed from the light for caliber, 300 grain bullets. I had problems with those all the way to, what was published data for 1700fps with JHC's, but which delivered a disappointing 1500 something fps over the chrono. I just plain got tired of the unburned powder so gave up on the 3031. When I loaded 405 grianers though, the unburned powder was not an issue. This led me to believe that the 3031 was better suited to the heavier bullets and bottle neck rifle cartridges. The 4198 runs clean with all bullet weights, I never find unburned powder, and it chromos much more closely to the published data.

Doc

Hodgdon Rifle Powders -- Web Site -- Email

H4198 info from their website, H4198 is a specialized extruded powder that works extremely well in the 7.62 x 39 Russian. This propellant is also excellent for the .222 with 50 gr. bullets and some other calibers very different in nature including the .45/70 and the .444 Marlin. H4198 also works well in some obsolete American rifle cartridges such as .32/40 Ballard and .40/170 Maynard. Our H4198 performs similar to most lots of IMR 4198. Hodgdon H4198 has undergone a grain size change. It has been shortened to improve metering and improve loading density in most applications. It now meters so smoothly that bench rest shooters are using it freely through their sophisticated powder measures and receiving record breaking groups, as well. Ballistic performance is the same as the outstanding original.
This "Grain Size Change" happened a dozen or so years ago. It meters great! Give it a try with the 300s, you will love it!

Doc

Doesnt Varget have the same extruded shape.....and same metering issues?

I don't have any experience with Varget. It is much slower than either 3031 or 4198 and I don't think that it would cover the broad range of Cowboy Calibers that these two do. Hodgdon lists it as their slowest powder for loading in either the 30-30 or the 45-70, and doesn't even list data for its use in either the 38-55 or the 30-40Krag. Sounds like a good one to try for extreme stability loads though.

Doc

And it is a go-to for standard 5.56 (.223) AR loads .

Sounds like good info. I have never loaded for an AR, but is sounds like these would be the go-to powders for that cartridge. Over the years, I have been on a quest to reduce the number of powders that I keep. I have done well in that regard and am still able to load for all of my junk. I can tell you that once I am through this eight pounder of WW 296 Ball, I won't be getting any more of it. I find it to be only good for the top end of the load spectrum for my 44 Magnums (full power) and unusable for any reduction at all. In fact, Winchester warns not to fill less than 95% of the available space or it could be dangerous. It doesn't work worth a darn with 180 grain bullets, no matter how heavy a crimp you apply, and it flame cuts the frame of the revolvers horribly. 2400 seems to be a much better choice.

Doc

Lumpy...I want all of your toys

I MUST shoot that .454

I have seen it and shot it, it is a gorgeous piece of gear. It shoots real nice too! To give a power comparison, the best I can do is 1500fps with a 200gr Hornady XTP out of my 8" Dan Wesson. That Casull packs a wallop!

Doc

No, the Dan Wesson is in .44 Magnum. Most of the loading that I have done for this revolver is using Winchester 296 Ball powder. I just went out a few weeks back and shot a couple of boxes of 200gr Hornady XTP's over 27.7 grains of it which gives 1450 over the chronograph. WW brass and WLP primers.

Doc

Why not use the real stuff?
LG

I order all of my BP from here, and have it deliver'd to my home. ;)
https://www.powderinc.com/

LG

I order in 25 lb. lots.
For those not versed in the BP life.
Gun clean up and lube'n are a whole new world
Guns must be clean'd ASAP after shooting as BP is VERY hydroscopic . Rust will start in a short time.
LG

The gasoline in the tank of you car that's sit'n in the garage is 100 times more explosive than BP in it's container.
You can buy small amounts-The HAZ-MAT fee is the same for 5 lbs as 50 lbs.
I can assure you that Powder Inc will mix different granulations, within a shipment.........
Powder Inc is the master distributor for Goex BP.
Remember this-A full 70 gn load in say a .45-70 bp load. Will only get you about 100 rnds of ammo from a 1 pound container of BP.
Your choice to buy in bulk and save $$$, or not--
Buying 25 lbs lot from Powder Inc will be cheaper in the long run, than buy'n 1 or 2 lbs at a time at retail-Do the math.
LG

From the Powder Inc site for Goex powder
Price to your door-
5 lb. lot: $25.5 per lb.
10 lb. lot: $20.05 per lb.
25 or 50 lb. lot: $16.20 per lb.
Price includes shipping and hazmat fee.

Maybe you could find some folks and split an order......
I just rec'd a 25 lb order a couple of weeks ago.
LG

That's not real BP-
Get the real stuff, and you'll never use that other stuff again.
Where do you live that restricts you to just 2 lbs ??
For me in LA County, it's 25 lbs of BP.
Now, as for smokeless powder-I might be a bit over the limit and we won't even talk about primers--------
LG

Can't ask for more than that. ;)
LG

Those rules are in place for counties and citys that don't have their own regs.
I don't know anyone that would have a BP mortar like you describe. :D
IIRC, LA Country was 25lb. Could have change'd--
LG

BP is put in plastic containers like smokeless so it will burn and not explode-
Some day, you'll have to see my garage-Then you'll feel fine about yours- =))
LG

agreed!

I have seen them play that game because of the gas in your car inside your garage and a gallon of gas stored also in the garage........
LG

You should have seen the crap the insurance outfits tried after the Crown fire here.
LG

Hey! Speaking of powder, Deadwood Dealer said that he thought he could help you out, Lumpy that is, with getting some Unique. He has a connection and he offered to help out at yesterday's match, so get with him.

Doc

No, he said to get in contact wit Rusty and get the contact info from him. I don't think he has any on hand, he is just working closely with a powder guy. Rusty has his contact info.

Doc

Hi Lumpy, Check your e-mail. I am not sure if this is current or not but you could give it a try.

My Best
Doc

Heard you got the powder that you needed, and at a pretty good price as well! That's great!

My Best
Doc

That should hold you for a spell! You would need to ask, but I think that Camp Cookie has a load that uses something like a quarter or a half grain of Unique. That should last some good long time! =))

That being said I think I'll work the unloading table when Cookie shoots. :-t

Lumpy you saw the follow-up email for more Unique right? Deadwood had a few more containers for sale.