Want to see a specific category? Contact rusty.
Side Match
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Lately we have been shooting 5 stages at our monthly match. I am proposing that we make the 5th stage a sort of side match instead of the usual 10, 10, 4 stage. Open to any ideas on a format that would maximize the number of participants. Just tryin' to mix it up a little.
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I agree that a side match would be fun. I have a derringer. I do not have any old style long guns, but a long shot match would be interesting.
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We could do a long shot match open to any long gun and then one for the true long range rifles.
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So let's give this a try. Since everyone has a lever we thought we would have a side match with 10 shots @ 100 yds. Highest number of hits wins. Total time breaks a tie. Simple. We can modify this as needed.
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The Long Shot with our lever guns sounds fun, lets try it this Sunday. So, I guess
clean'n out the dirt in my Marlin today, (from last months dust bowl shoot-out!) ought to help, along with some heavier bullets to make the distance....Heath Montgomery -
I thought the side match we did in December added some nice variety to our shoot. Any interest in doing it again?
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Hi guys,
I was reading about the desire for a side match. Is that something that we would like to try in March? We would need to consider a couple of things. What to do about a La Cabana trip. I guess what I am saying is that, half or more of us would be leaving for home or lunch. The dedicated few would be left to wrangle steel. Any thoughts? -
Of course, I was talking about a long range rifle type of deal. 100 yards with any cowboy era rifle. It could be rifle or pistol caliber, repeater or single shot at first. If enough folks show up with buffalo rifles, we could put a target out much farther and have that match as well. Let me know what you think and please notice that I FINALLY FIGURED OUT HOW TO POST ON THIS DAMN FANGLED CORNTRAPTION!
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While you were working on your tan lines we did a 100yd lever gun side match. It didn't take long. If we have a lot of interest we can replace stage 5 cuz La Cabana has margaritas again!
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Bet Wendy had to show Doc how to work his phone-- %-(
IMO-When we can, we should shoot a full 5 stages.
When I held some long range(300yds)side shoots, it took more time than a normal SASS stage.
Doc, maybe this should be discussed at the next shooters meeting at the range, and a vote taken.
I would like to see LR rifle(300yds min, Sharps type)and some LR pistol(50-75yds).
Lumpy
Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
I agree on 5 stages. A side match doesnt have to be that frequent. When we decide to do one we just make it fit in our allotted time slot. I think it would be cool and may get me to get one of my those fancy Shilohs. You can cast my vote as a thumbs up for any varient we come up with.
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All right then, here is what we will do. We will poll the shooters at the next match to see what types of long range guns everybody has, then we will set up accordingly. If we give each shooter a single try of ten rounds at a single target, it should move along quick enough to allow for two different ranges. We could start out at one hundred for the lever guns and two or three hundred for the Buffalo rifles. As everybody starts to max out on hits, we will move'em out farther at the next match. If we had to, we could set a three minute time limit for each shooter, but I don't think it will be necessary.
Doc -
10 rnds from any single shot rifle using real BP and maintaining any type fouling control just ain't gonna happen in 3 minutes...........
Try this-
All shooters on the line.
Start at one end, shooter fires 1 shot-Move to next shooter and on down the line.
You want at least 9-10 shooters for this.
This way the shooter that has just fired, has time to make sight adjustments, complete fouling control etc. without be'n rush'd.
Have at least 2 spotters on the line also-
LG
Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
I guess it depends on the target type. If we are scoring closest to bull on paper that will take more time. If we set up two ranges we could do levers on one in the style Doc suggests and the other range for the Quigley crowd shootin' the way Lumpy suggests. Or do the two different styles on two different months. Oh and on the steel wrangling...we could pack it up afore everyone leaves since we only need at most two targets for the rifles. Whatever we decide it won't be wrong.....right?
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Score'n steel is much faster/easier-
More fun with BOOM-CLANG :-)
We can do lever and Sharps type on the same line.
Just use different targets.
Now about 'lever'-Is this rifle caliber or pistol caliber??
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
Yes, steel targets at first, but not eliminating the future possibility of a paper contest, with something like two or three set ups. One could be for black powder single shots, one could be for rifle caliber lever guns and, if we have enough interest, one set up for pistol caliber lever guns as well. Let's poll the shooters at the next match to see what the firearm cross section will look like. Multiple lines will allow for the most shooters of smokeless to get through while the black powder contingent works their magic at their pace.
Doc -
Very easy to set 'steel' at say 100-200 & 300 yds for this.
Doc, the largest target we have is the 'buzzard' isn't it??
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
Just to carry the paper contest idea a bit further, we could have something like three targets set up, at the decided ranges, and allow for a predetermined number of sighters or a pre determined sighter time frame, after which, we would shoot one shot for record, or more if we decide to, and the closest to the center wins all the marbles, well, a marble anyway. That sounds fun as well as the steel type match.
Doc
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Even with the best of spotting scopes. It can be tricky try'n to see hits at 300 yds on paper. Much easier to see a 'splat' of lead.
We can also have steel and paper set up.
Please note-This will take much more time than a standard 'stage' to run, with all 3 types of rifles used(pistol cal, rifle cal lever, rifle cal single shot).
LG
Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
We can choose not to run weapon categories initially. Just bring what you own and compete. I like the idea of paper AND steel. Shooter chooses either or and that group scores against each other. Whew! Just 3 of us here. Imagine the abundance of opinions when we open this up with the other cowfolk.
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Well, watching the side match today was very nice. I've never shot cowboy long distance rifles so this was new for me.
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Next time I take no prisoners.....Doc.
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And next time I'll have ammo made up...
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So, it sounds like the side match was a good thing overall. What went right and what went wrong? I had prizes for the winner in each category but with three classes shooting at the same time, timers would have been impossible, so no using time as the tiebreaker. We had a tie in the Single Shot, Buffalo Rifle category and it was getting pretty late in the day. What to do? First thing would be to have only four main match stages on that day and maybe even plan out stages that move along more quickly than others. I mean things like, no can throwers or anything that requires a Down Range after each shooter. that would give more time to shoot the side match. In that case we could have had a shoot off. How about one shot from the first tied shooter, then from the other until the first miss! We could also have a second string of shots and count those hits for the win but it would take longer than the sudden death type of tiebreaker. Any thoughts?
Doc -
The match was fun!
I would suggest, that all targets be of the same basic shape for future events such as this.
Also-IF we are going to shoot from the benches. Please let us know ahead of time. So that the proper 'stuff' can be brought.
I would also ask that a 10-15 minute sight in period be implemented. This would work well for folks using more than 1 rifle, and folks shar'n a rifle.
Hav'n a spotting scope on hand would be handy too--
Respectfully,
LG
Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
Thumbs up on basic shapes, paint, spotting scope and lack of AR concussions. I enjoyed the match.
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I have no suggestions to add as I have never done this sort of shoot before. It was all new to me and I enjoyed what I was able to stay for. I now have a better idea of what I need to bring and time I need to set aside. I'm looking forward to the next one.
I've seen and read on-line guys sitting and using cross sticks when they shoot. Is that something that's done with this kind of shooting too maybe? Not sure where a guy would sit if others are using the benches plus the rocks may be problematic.
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Yes-Cross sticks are SOP for this.
The problem with the D/M Range is the dang rocks.
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
Ok, so I'm in the general area with my thinking.
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damn sticks and stones...
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O.K. So the targets that we have are the ones we will be choosing from. I picked the large tombstone for the 100 because it is the smallest of the three of our largest targets. I chose the buffalo for the 200 because it has a vertical size very close to that of the tombstone, just a good bid more width. I chose the vulture for the 300 because it has the tallest hit area. we could switch those around to suit but to get all three the same we could use three of the fat cowboys. I had no intention of shooting from the benches but that is where gravity seemed to pull most folks, so I went with it. Next time we will shoot standing, sitting, or prone, from our regular firing line, like God intended. If we have a 10 or 15 minute sight in period, it would have to be with everybody shooting at once. We could never have enough time to have a single shooter in each class, (so three persons), take their fifteen minutes for sighters then, take their fifteen minutes to shoot the ten rounds for score, before the next three line up to shoot their string. I don't own a spotting scope but, since I could watch Rusty's shots fly the entire way to the 200 yard target through his very compact binos, I suspect that we could rely on our own optics. Remember we have three shooters at a time and would require three spotting scopes. Crossed sticks are all that should be allowed as a rest during this type of match, agreed?
So, for next time, choose which targets you would like to see, bring a blanket to put under your stuff and your butt, bring your favorite optics, let's try five sighters, and we will shoot off for ties. What do you guys think? -
Sounds good to me.
Agree on the 'cowboy' targets for this. Freshly painted BLACK
Get your load'n bench built-- ;)
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
Sounds like fun.
Lumpy, I don't have any sticks, any suggestions? materials, lengths, plans? -
Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men
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Thanks, that should get me in the neighborhood. Too pricey for me to buy, I'll try to cobble together something that's close.
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You want 48" length with about a 3" steel spikes.
Have them set up for adjustable pivot points(multiple holes). Plus a leather 'pad' or lined for the bbl to sit on.
LG
Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
I should be able to handle that. Might not look as purdy as those in the link but it should keep my rifle out of the dirt.
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Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men
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If we are all in agreement then, the next time that we hold a side match like this, we will use the fat cowboy targets that we have, painted black. Is it better to have them on a tall stick or a short one?
Doc -
Whichever gives the best contrast for target clarity.
Think'n short-Also less chance of the target fall'n over from a hit.
LG
Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
I agree, it would be a pain to have to stop the match to go down range to pick up fallen targets. Let's see what others have to say, if anything, about color.
Doc -
I have found that flat black gives the best contrast to the background.
It's also very easy to spot a hit(silver 'splat'), if there's a conflict in a call.
LG
Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
sounds good to me.
if we have more shooters per target does it make sense to repaint between shooters?
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I would say it depends on the number of hits on the target and how clearly a hit can be seen.
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
Yes they do, if placed in front of a berm, and not on or behind it.
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
Don't forget the catered lunch to be served on the range. =))
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
I am planning (baring anything more important) on bringing my Sharps clone out next month (April) if only to test my loads. I've never shot this rifle past 100yrds so the practice will surely be a good thing.
If anyone wants to "practice" with me after the match that might be fun.
I'll be bringing my long range scope and a blanket and shooting mat to see how they work on the rocks. I hope to have my shooting sticks by then as well. -
Bring a note book and get your sight settings for each range out to 600 yds.
What are you doing for fouling control between shots?
To bad we can't meet at D/M during the week.
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
I have a blow tube. 3 or 4 deep breaths seem to be working well for me so far.
I'll be bringing my cleaning rod in case I need to wipe or clean.
I'm scrambling right now trying to find a replacement screw for my el cheap-o Taylor vernier sight. I have one like this one:
tayler vernier.png434 x 956 - 165K -
Can't get the picture to open-
Show me a clear picture-Do you know the size and thread count?
LG
Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
Not sure why the pic isn't uploading.
Here's a link to the Taylor site I got the picture from:
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/accessories/accesories/sights-accessories/sights/long-creedmore-tang-sight-1-1-2-base-blued-model-5502-clearance.html
The screw that's missing (lost) is one of the two screws that adjust the tilt (windage).
I have no idea what size or thread count it is, I'm a computer guy...
I'm hoping my local hardware store will have something to get me by until I can get the right one. I have an email in to Taylors in hopes they can point me in the right direction but it's been about a week and I've not heard back yet.
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WOW-Not much in the way of windage in that sight.
You local store won't have anything like that. Bet it's metric to boot.
Why don't you look at upgrading that sight?
Your best bet is to call'em!
LG
Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
OK-just talk'd to Ashley at Taylor's
Sez screw is $4.00 each(get2)and these are no longer made.
Call her at 1 540 7222017 x 110 or ask for her. She is there till 5pn(est).
Go get'er done-
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
Regarding your question "Why don't you look at upgrading that sight?"
Cuz I'm perpetually broke.
You are retired and I am trying my best to get retired. Part of the plan is to put every dime possible against my unwanted debts. I'm hoping to be ready in about 5 years with nothing but a house and car payment.
Nuthin' in my religion says I can't accept donations though... ;) -
Thought that's what I just did........ :))
Just hope those are the correct screws.
You will have to set a 'no-wind' 200yd windage zero to take all the advantage you can of the sight's limited windage adjustment. You do that moving the front sight in it's base.
Let me know when you have a free day during the week-You know--A 'sick' day ;)
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
I'm hoping to replace my front sight "blade" with something hooded with inserts possibly a level.
The "windage" adjustment isn't bad at the short 100yrd distance I've been shooting at down by where I live but out past that I have no idea how it will do (or won't do). I'm sure it's lacking but one works with what one has until he can get something better.
Too bad Fridays are bad for you. I get every other Friday off.
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Fridays are crowded at the range. Same for Monday.
Tues-Wed-Thur are the best dayz-
X2 on get'n rid of that blade-Doez Taylor have anything??
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
I look'd on the site and couldn't find any front sights.
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
They're under "sights accessories" of all things:
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/accessories/accesories/sights-accessories/sight-accessories.html
Not much of a choice but I'd be looking at the cheapest ones anyway.
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Get it order'd and if you want I can do the install.
Get the sight insert card also.
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
Let me know--
Got a big hammer to make sure it fits. :D
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
I ordered the screws a few weeks or so ago and nothing has showed up yet.
I found a temporary fix for testing loads with so I'm not stopped cold.
A nearby hardware store has 4 drawers of "gun screws" that looks nice and useful.
Nice find.
I'm hoping to do some test shots this coming weekend. (fingers crossed)
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I have a 'pop-rivet' tool that will anchor that rear sight for you. =))
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
Use some Krylon spray paint so the welds don't rust. >:)
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
Lumpy (or anyone else who knows) I've never shot the buff gun on a side match before. I watched you guys go at it from the bench last match and learned that wasn't exactly the way it's usually done so I made me some sticks to shoot from.
I noticed we had a number of sighting in shots or fouling shot or what ever they're called before shooting for score.
It that normal? 10 sighting in shots then 10 for score?
Also, what equipment is usually used?
I have the following:
Rifle
Ammo (BP and lead)
Sticks
Blow Tube
Cleaning rod and cleaning supplies - Do you "swab" between shots? If so, what do you like to use?
Spotting scope and stand
Notebook and pen
(Still looking for a low stool - the one you suggested is sitting in the wife's Amazon wish list for a future bulk buy)
Shooting mat
I'd be interested in what others use.
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Many shoots-you have a certain fixed time for sighting shots. Like about 10 minutes. You can shoot as many 'sighters' as you can in that 10 minutes.
Some shoots, you come to the line and must be ready to shoot for score--
I 'blow-tube' most of the time. I use DGL bullet lube.
Have used an umbrella at times to cut the glare on the sights.
LG
Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
Hey guys, there is a really nice, limited edition Marlin, in 45-70 on sale at Turners Outdoorsman. High grade wood with a fancy checkering pattern, engraving, and a couple of gold inlays, all for $1299.99. Anybody looking for a really cool side match rifle should take a look.
My Best
Doc -
O.K. So let's talk about a long range match for May. First off, having an entire match day devoted to just side matches would allow us to have just the folks who are genuinely interested attend. At our regular monthly matches, we have a host of folk who would rather not try their hand at something like a long range side match and several who's intention it is, is to get over to La Cabana for lunch and relaxing immediately following the main match. These factors seem to split through many of our shooting couples. Seeing as nobody is accustomed to having a match in May, I am suggesting a full match day of side matches. We could do pistol caliber repeaters at 100 and even 150 if you want to. This would be on steel with something like ten sighters or ten minutes to sight in, or even fifteen minutes to execute your sighters and your rounds for record. We could also have paper targets at 50 and 100 yards to sight in on for those of us who have no idea of where we are hitting at that distance. A hammer and brass drift would go a long way toward getting all of us on target. We could do the same for rifle caliber repeaters except at increased distances. How about 150 and 200 with the same rules applying? We could do single shot, "Buffalo Rifles" at 200 and 300, even further if that is what we want to do. We could shoot at the steel lollipop targets that are on the range all the time and go out to 500 yards, or we could shoot paper if that is preferable. After shooting my Hi-Wall last month, I discovered that these tang, and veneer sights are suited to shooting at a round object such as a lollipop target or the big black bull on a paper target. We could also put a white paper plate on the buffalo to serve as an aiming point if that is desirable. We could have a derringer stage and a pocket pistol stage as well. I don't have a suitable pocket pistol but if someone is interested enough to supply one, we could do it. You guys mull this over and make plenty of comments, meanwhile I will try to put together in my head just how we would operate the match from a firing line perspective.
My Best
Doc -
Shoot steel and paint'em black. Much easier to see/hear hits on steel, than on paper.
Shoot the single shots out to 500yds. The range's targets will work well here.
Paint a aim'n point on the steel, as a paper plate will be gone after the first hit.
Doc-How about put'n out an Email to all HDC folk to have them see this thread? Might get more folks sign'd up for this site.
LG
Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
All sounds good to me. Not having ever shot my Sharps clone past 100 yards I have to say the bigger the target the better!!!! LOL.
I have a Bond Arms Derringer in 45colt that I can bring if you don't mind shooting it with Black Powder loads.
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I'd be willing to bet that many of us haven't had much opportunity to shoot at the longer ranges with our junk. Maybe we should do something like, have contests that start at 100 for all rifle types. I think that the Derringer would be a great idea! I think that I have some super light bullets for that caliber, like 180 grains, that would reduce the recoil some.
My Best
Doc -
I have a Bond .38 Derringer that can be also used. Due to the short range. A paper target is best for this.
Do we want a LR handgun target, say at 50 yds?
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
The suggestion for a 59 us pistol is a good one. Once we get all the categories finalized I can post a notice and also email it out.
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50 yard pistol......
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We need to figure out what the course of fire will be for each category.
IE-how many rounds on each target and at what distance etc.
The single shot Buffalo rifles will take the longest time due to fouling control w/BP and sighting after each shot.
LGHav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
I have a bond arms that we can shoot with my cowboy specials lite loads!!
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Hey guys, thanks for emailing the link! Guess I need to get caught up. The long range side match again in May sounds good if we have enough interested shooters, count me in.Heath Montgomery
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Discussion the firingline and course of fire...
I would like to try shooting off cross sticks. But I understand the benches are more comfy. I'd like to see the option to do both or either.
I believe I have another derringer in .38spl but I don't know if I have any ammo for it. I'll load some up if anyone wants to use it.
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I don't know if we will be able to shoot both from the benches and from crossed sticks. the firing line for crossed stick shooting would need to either be directly in front of the benches or to the right end of the firing line, where we park during a regular match. This position at least lines everyone up in a safe firing line but the steel targets that we have been considering shooting are at the extreme opposite edge of the range. How about this, the left-most two shooting benches will be for Pistol Caliber Rifles. We will shoot the 100 yard, permanent steel target for this. The next two benches, moving right, will be for Rifle Caliber Repeaters and will use the permanent steel target set at 200 yards. The next two benches will be for Single Shot, "Buffalo" Rifles and will use the permanent 300 yard steel target. We can then use a couple of benches for 50 yard pistol and some paper targets at whatever ranges we choose. Then we can have our crossed stick shooting position on the dirt, where High Power shoots prone from. This would allow us to shoot most everything we want to, without conflict. What do you guys think?
Doc -
IMHO-just use the benches, as the ground is as hard as a rock to pound anydangthing into. BUT-we can try the X-sticks if folks want to.
I do think the single shot rifles should go out to 500 yds.
What will the round count be for this event?
LG
Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men -
It sounds like we have enough interest to have to have a couple of paper targets and also have a couple of stations for the use of crossed sticks as well. If we format it so that each shooter has fifteen minutes to shoot as many sighters as they want and ten rounds for score, and we have two positions for each firearm type, you know, pistol caliber repeater, rifle caliber repeater, etc., we can move eight shooters per hour through each category. If we use twenty minutes for the same we could get six shooters per hour through. So, if we had long range pistol, pistol caliber repeater, rifle caliber repeater, single shot buffalo rifle, derringer, and two of these categories from crossed sticks, we are looking at 140 minutes plus time to get ready for each category and to shoot the bull as well, we are looking at a four hour match. Since we won't be timing the stages in the same way, we could start all stations at the same time and measure off twenty minutes, before all participants switch positions and make ready for the next category. How does this sound to everyone?
My Best
Doc -
It all sounds good to me (but I'm easy).
I'm not dead set on using my sticks, just another toy waiting to get played with is all.
I guess I was assuming the sticks are held up by the rifle not nessessarily having to be actually stuck into the ground (rocks) with it's spikes. But, never having every shot with them I'm probably wrong in my assumption.
Shooting from the bench is perfectly fine with me. I'll just fold up the sticks and keep them close so I feel like I used them somehow...
Looking forward to this.
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I don't see any reason not to try some sticks, and, if you are willing to share I just might give them a try myself! My thinking is that if we have seven or eight categories in which to shoot, we can really make a day of it.
On another note, I just put together a hundred 38-55 Winchester rounds for my Marlin Cowboy Rifle. I will bring it to the match and Let Montana Jewel use it, if she decides to attend. Outside of that, I would be willing to loan it's use, including ammo, to anyone who wants to try their hand at the Rifle Caliber Repeater class. Rusty, I'm talkin to you!
I will plan on having extra ammo for my 45-70 repeaters as well so there should be no excuses not to shoot this long range match. Get the word out!
My best
Doc -
Shoot'n off of 'sticks' is a whole different world from shoot'n off the bench.
For one-Sight settings are not the same.
I would like to see the single shot Buff. gun class shoot farther than just 300yds.
LG
Hav'n you along, is like lose'n 2 good men
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